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Fallahi D-T-D-T-
Ramzy explains it as simple alternating eighth note rhythm. Others play it differently.
What do we want?
Ramzy explains it as simple alternating eighth note rhythm. Others play it differently.
What do we want?
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Kansas
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Re: Lexicon: Fallahi
Sun, October 11, 2009 - 5:15 PMJust like a rolling filled Fox rhythm
1-+-2-+-|
DktkDkT-|
DktkDkTk|
Now that is cabaret style. Folkloric style is the equivalent of a cabaret fast maksoum.
1-+-2-+-|
Dk-kD-k-|
Ds-sD-s-| -
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Re: Lexicon: Fallahi
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 2:55 AMit has been explained to me as all accents - or all strokes even with no accents, however you wanna look at it:
DKTKDKTK
or the last ka can be a double:
DKTKDKTkk -
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Re: Lexicon: Fallahi
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 5:34 AMDKTKDKTK
Yes, this is kind of how I play it, David
But I usually play it more like this"
DKtKDkTk
Souhail Kaspar argues that it MUST be played exactly like a magsum, but fast.
DTkTDkTkk
It IS important that it be played and thought of as a 2/4 rhythm -
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Re: Lexicon: Fallahi
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 7:52 AMI play it as a double time maqsum as well. 2/4 time, very peppy.
Because I am usually playing it to dancers with zills, I tend to play only the frame work.
1 Doum
e Tek
&
a Tek
2 Doum
e
& Tek
a
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Re: Lexicon: Fallahi
Tue, October 13, 2009 - 8:50 PMJeffrey, I learned and play Fallahi the same way: alternating strokes with the accents creating the cadence of the rhythm; the main accents on the left (non-dominant hand). D_K_t_K_D_k_T_k
D_K___K_D__T
I have heard a fast maqsum played as 'Fallahi' but I think some of differential accent is lost, and usually heard only D_____D__T as the accents.
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Re: Lexicon: Fallahi
Tue, October 13, 2009 - 4:59 PMFallahi should not be played as Maqsoum Sareea. It is not accented with the right hand. It is also the villagers beat.
It is used at higher speeds where playing Maqsoum sareea is very tiring and ineffective.
It is important to know the difference between the beats and not just go by what some one said ( with all due respect). once things explained properly, then things start making sense.
Faisal
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Re: Lexicon: Fallahi
Tue, October 13, 2009 - 8:28 PMAll right, I'll ask... What is a Maqsoum Sareea? And, what is a "villager's beat"? -
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Re: Lexicon: Fallahi
Tue, October 13, 2009 - 8:59 PMYes, please. Faisal could you please enlighten us on Maqsum Sareea versus Fallahi?
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Re: Lexicon: Fallahi
Tue, October 13, 2009 - 9:53 PMOK. Chales,
Maqsoum Sareea is a fast Maqsoum. The word Sareea in Arabic means fast. So it is Maqsoum but fast.
Fallah as a word, it means farmer or peasant. Fallahi means that of farmers or peasants.The Fallahi beat is used among villagers to play there fast folk songs.
In villages around the Arab world the beats take less sophisticated forms, including Maqsoum, Baladi and Saidi.
In the urban or city music those beats take more classical form.
So, the fallaheen(the farmers or peasants) in Egypt don't play Maqsoum Sareea, rather they use the other beat that we call FAllahi to play their fast songs. Of course, you will find couple of songs that are based on Maqsoum Sareea, but the main beat used is Fallahi.
Now in the belly dance genre and modern cinema music, composers used the beat that is called Fallahi in some of their compositions as will as the Maqsoum Sarees. So in order to use one of those 2 beats, the speed has to be right. If it is slow enough than you can play Maqsoum Sareea. And when it is fast enough, you can use Fallahi. There is a classic example of drummers trying to speed up Maqsoum, but at the end it becomes too fast that they have to switch to Fallahi.
As the other tribe members added, the way to play Fallahi is the alternated Ka and Tek.
The accent of the Fallahi is not played with the right hand like Maqsoum, rather, it is emphasized with the Ka sound and this is why it is much easier and effective to play Fallahi at higher speeds. You can run the experiment of playing both beats and see which one can go the extra speed.
I also understand why it is confusing to know which beat is which. The accent of the Tek in Maqsoum is matched with the accent of the Ka in Fallahi. SO some people would think Fallahi is Maqsoum Sareea.
I hope I was clear enough and not adding to the confusion.
Faisal -
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Re: Lexicon: Fallahi
Wed, October 14, 2009 - 12:13 AMHello all,
Thanks Faisal for your excellent information about the difference between fast Maqsoum and Fellahi.
When I learned Fellahi from Sufi drummers in Cairo, they almost always added a fast 32nd note fill at the end which really differentiates the feel of Fellahi from Maqsoum:
D-K-t-K-D-k-Tktk and a variation with slap: S-K-t-K-D-k-Tktk
Frame drummers playing the ardeo (backing beat) would play:
DS-SD-S-
with doums being made with the thumb and closed, regular slaps with 4 fingers thus enabling a very fast almost side-to side hand motion.
Faisal, miss you man! It was great to jam over the summer...
Blessings all
Gavriel
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Re: Lexicon: Fallahi
Wed, October 14, 2009 - 8:15 PMThank you so much Faisal. Your input is always appreciated and the explaination was clear, well said. -
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Re: Lexicon: Fallahi
Wed, October 14, 2009 - 8:37 PMThank you Faisal, that is the way I was taught also by Amir Naoum.
I think that the big problem with Fallahi is going to be getting a consensus about right hand and left hand on Fallahi.
I met and talked with Souhail Kaspar a few months ago (what a great musician and person he is), and he was very adamant about Fallahi
being played exactly the same way as Magsoum..
For example, I play Fallahi as a 2/4 rhythm this way:
D-K-t-K-D-k-T-kk
R-L-R-L-R-L-R-LL
and Souhail corrected me saying that it needs to be played:
D-T-k-T-D-k-T-kk
R-R-L-R-R-L-R-LL
although he doesn't use the term "ka" or "k" for left hand (for him,they're all teks)
People that have studied with this great master will undoubtedly have difficulty with this notation, so I suggest a note be put in explaining the difference. -
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Re: Lexicon: Fallahi
Wed, October 14, 2009 - 8:48 PMI am more swayed with Khamis Henkesh's explanation where he says the old women in the villages play it like
DF-FD-F-
F being a flap. I found it very funny watching him imitate the old village woman technique.
Can't remember how he played Fellahi , the version he plays in night clubs. But I think it's just more practical to play it alternating hands.
I think it also will come down to what tempo you play it at. If you are playing it as fast as possible before ending in a roll to finish a drum solo for a dancer it's easier to play alternating hands.
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Re: Lexicon: Fallahi
Wed, October 14, 2009 - 9:32 PMWell Jeffrey,
I would be happy to post a demonstration of both beats Fallahi and Maqsoum Sareea to show the difference between them.
If you play it the way Kaspar said, then there is no need to call it Fallahi, you can call it Maqsoum Sareea and that will eliminate the hardship.
But because there is a beat called Maqsoum S and a beat called Fallahi, we should be able to show the difference between them.
I understand that Souhail can be adamant about things. But that puts him in conflict with other masters who played before him and at his time and they are so many.
Again I am willing to post a demonstration on youtube. -
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Re: Lexicon: Fallahi
Wed, October 14, 2009 - 10:14 PMHi Faisal,
There's no need for me because I agree with you.
I play Magsoum and Fallahi differently as you described, because that is how I learned it, and for me, it makes more sense to play it that way. To have it sound correct though, the player needs to have a good strong "ka" to play it so it doesn't get "muddy".
I am only suggesting putting a note there out of respect for Souhail Kaspar because he feels so strongly about it and he has many pupils that will argue about it.
But I always love watching videos of you play, so.............. :)
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Re: Lexicon: Fallahi
Thu, October 15, 2009 - 12:07 PMHi Faisal
just come on the back of this thread but loved the history lesson. I've been trying to play "fallahi" with both hands and have never been able to get up to speed using the Maqsoum accent. I thought it was just down to my inexperience and lack of hand speed going from doum to tek rather than from doum to ka, but I'm sure the practice has helped me. I'll now not worry and keep practicing "Fallahi" and "Maqsoum Sareea" . Thank you and yes please to the demonstration !! -
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Re: Lexicon: Fallahi
Thu, October 15, 2009 - 12:33 PMThank you folks! It's always great to get new information, especially the cultural and historical parts. !!!! *big smiles*
As for the different teachers:
When studying from Faisal, I will call them Fellahi and Maqsuum S, and play them differently. When I'm studying from Souhail, I'll always play Maqsuum S, and call it Fellahi. When I'm playing with another musician, I'll call it the name he knows it by.
When I play for my self, if it is in 4/4 time, it is maqsuum. If in 2/4 time, it is Fellahi. The hands and accents change as my preference, the dancers, or music require.
:-) -
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Re: Lexicon: Fallahi
Thu, October 15, 2009 - 4:17 PMHey Todd,
Thanks for saying that. That sounds like a good diplomacy.
I think the main thing in this topic is finding a standard name and notation for the Lexicon. So how can we notate 2 different beats the same way and then call them 2 different names when we all or most of us acknowledge the difference between them.
For example; if you call Baladi: baladi and you call it Masmoudi Sagheer, then there is no harm because it is the same beat with 2 different names. But in the case of Fallahi and Maqsoum S, what can we do knowing that they are different from each other?
I would like to find an answer to that my self. -
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Re: Lexicon: Fallahi
Thu, October 15, 2009 - 8:07 PMFaisal, the answer will be revealed Oct 23 in San Francisco. Locale to be announced... -
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Re: Lexicon: Fallahi
Fri, October 16, 2009 - 3:00 AMThat sounds scary Mark. I'll just have to wait and see :-)
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Re: Lexicon: Fallahi
Thu, October 15, 2009 - 8:24 PMI think it is still useful to acknowledge the fact that there is a naming difference and make people aware of it.
I think I've told this story before but I'll repeat it anyway. There is this supposed Egyptian Folkloric dance expert named Suraya Hilal that came out to Sydney years ago and my drum teacher Jamal Zraika was contacted to play in her workshop.
She asked him to play Fellahi so he played what most people would expect to hear in a nightclub setting, which is the rolling alternating hands. She then shouted at him in some rude Arabic words saying to some effect that it was the wrong rhythm. They had a big fight and Jamal walked out leaving the workshop without a live drummer.
In this particular example it would have been useful for both of them to realise that Fellahi can mean two different rhythms. Suraya was obviously wanting what a cabaret person would know as Maqsoum Saghir.
And if that isn't confusing enough, there are some people that want to call Masmoudi Saghir rhythm Maqsoum like this guy www.youtube.com/watch . These are probably the same people that call the Maqsoum Saghir rhythm Fellahi. -
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Re: Lexicon: Fallahi
Fri, October 16, 2009 - 9:33 AMOne of the reasons that all of us "creole" drummers here in the United States are trying to create a useful Lexicon is that there is no "right answer". None. There simply isn't.
Over the course of history there have been millions of drummers, in thousands of regions, in hundreds of countries, worshiping in dozens of religions, playing drums in literally countless situations.
To pretend that any label is "Correct" or that anyone that interprets / teaches / understands one of these rhythms or instruments in a different way is "Wrong" is to be incredibly, almost insufferably, arrogant.
In my opinion, the difference between fallahi played with alternating Tek and Ka, all Tek, or all Ka, is strictly a difference in performance technique. If you are playing the accents correctly, in tempo, on time, and in the agreed upon sequence, that is all that truly matters.
Should we notate Fallahi as the following?
Fallahi Framework (2/4 rhythm) [played with a lively tempo]
1 Doum
e Tek (or Ka)
&
a Tek (or Ka)
2 Doum
e
& Tek (or Ka)
a
*Tek (or Ka) denotes play style, and is situational depending on additional strikes and/or accompanying instruments.
Would that be pragmatic enough, but still satisfy by giving a nod to any and all possible traditional, historic or regional interpretations?
Ignatius' example with Suraya and Jamal is exactly the kind of thing that I think most of us wish to desperately avoid. Perhaps I am a dreamer here, and hopelessly naive, but shouldn't drumming be fun? There is no excuse for such horrible behavior, and the only thing that both Suraya and Jamal accomplished with their actions was to alienate the unfortunate attendees of that workshop.
Certainly, it is my intention to make the workshops I teach or perform at enjoyable for those who paid their money to attend. You know, so that they feel their time was well spent, and that they might want to spend their time that way again in the future.
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Re: Lexicon: Fallahi
Fri, October 16, 2009 - 11:52 PMi think there is one more charles, what faisal explained is written like i wrote back at the beginning of the thread. when he said they are two different rhythms, this is why...
these be thee three FALLAHI i see: ; )
1. "the souhail" - this is normal maqsoum sped up (maqsoum sareea)
D T k T D k T k
2. "the tribe" - this is alternating hands with maqsoum accent
D K t K D k T k
3. "the faisal" - ALL strokes are played with the same intensity, it is not a maqsoum accent. the last 1/8 note is often a rest or 'kk'.
D K T K D K T -
* 1 and 2 are alike in the sound(although i think they sound a little different, just by nature of the fingering).
* 2 and 3 are alike in the fingering.
also, charles in your example, the 'ka' would never be played on the 'and of 2' as you have noted. all of these have a dominant hand Tek there.
good discussion!
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Re: Lexicon: Fallahi
Sat, October 17, 2009 - 11:10 AMAs I get older and slower, technically, I find the way Faisal has explained it much easier to do at a fast speed. There is also a much different feel between the ways presented. If you play baladi or maqsoum with double ka's on the non accented strokes vs tk's, you have the same number of strokes but a totally different feel.
Same goes for playing the maqsoum pattern really fast vs playing the alternating hand strokes pattern for fellahi. The most important aspect is always getting the "feel" correct. If you think about where fallahi "originates", if you were a villager, not a conservatory trained drummer, who had to have another occupation to make a living, which form makes more sense? Just another way to look at it.
By the way, I have played with Arabs who referred to maqsoum as 2/4 and ayoub as 4/4, so as previously mentioned, try to keep it all really flexible.
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Re: Lexicon: Fallahi
Sun, October 18, 2009 - 5:53 PMThis sort of difference is a good thing to know and to lay out in the lexicon. There are names to attach to the rhythms, and despite their similarity have a difference in feel.
Masmoudi Saghir/ Baladi can appear with both names attached without comment in the first volume (the quick reference). Fallahi and Maqsoum S can appear as separate entries. The second volume can then offer discussion of how the two relate, how the Maqsoum S relates to Maqsoum and so forth.
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