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Anyone have some advice on fixing up a cheap riq to sound a bit better? I bought one of the $20 tunable riqs and although it sounds okay I know it coule be tweaked a bit more. For instance, the zills sound a bit "dead" to me and I'm not sure what to do to get a more active sound out of them. Oiling the rods they spin on? Crimping some with pliers so they don't all slide together so evenly?
And any advice on tuning the head? Tune it high for a drier, crisper sound or lower for a longer, ringing doum-like hum?
There's not much info on the web for basic maintenance/tuning for these so I thought I'd ask here to make sure I wasn't ignorant of something every player should know! :)
And any advice on tuning the head? Tune it high for a drier, crisper sound or lower for a longer, ringing doum-like hum?
There's not much info on the web for basic maintenance/tuning for these so I thought I'd ask here to make sure I wasn't ignorant of something every player should know! :)
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Dallas
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Re: Tuning / Fixing up a Riq?
Tue, June 23, 2009 - 10:42 AMHi Ron,
Not meaning to insult your instrument, but a $20 riq will probably not sound much better than...a $20 riq :-).
That said, you could possibly locate some better zills and a different head to put on it, but by the time you have spent the money for those items you could just buy a better riq for $50-$60 total.
Below are a couple of links to some Egyptian models that won't set you back too much and should sound quite a bit better than your current drum.
larkinthemorning.com/product.aspx
cgi.ebay.com/Professiona...cmdZViewItem
Where did you get yours from? It might be easier to give advice if we knew more about the drum itself. I can understand not wanting to spend a large amount of money especially if your just getting into playing a particualr instrument but as the saying goes, "you get what you pay for" and I think you would be wise to look into a slightly higher priced drum.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Bill -
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Re: Tuning / Fixing up a Riq?
Thu, June 25, 2009 - 4:05 PMI totally agree, I knew going into it that it wouldn't be perfect. :) But I've usually found little things you can do to fix up most instruments to get a little more out of them so I figured it was worth it to use for now.
When I originally ordered it I thought it was just a non-mosaic version of the two you posted, I'd considered those exact models but thought the prices may have just been more for the cosmetic upgrade of the mosaic body. However, the zills on mine look a little cheaper/duller than those pictured so I guess there's more differences than just that after all. I got mine from Active Musician, here's the item's page:
www.activemusician.com/item--MD.TAMQD
I fixed it up a little bit already. I had a broken tambourine that had a nice loud, bright sound originally so I swapped out a couple of the new riq's big (but thin) brass zills for the little aluminum ones from the broken one. So now it has kind of a hybrid sound of the two. Still not perfect, but at least it sounds a little better at drum practice!
I also noticed when I took the head off to swap zills that the rim is really rough and not at all even. So I'll probably make a new rim or just more cleanly carve the one that's on there. -
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Re: Tuning / Fixing up a Riq?
Thu, June 25, 2009 - 4:23 PMI have to agree with most others here. A $20 riqq is not meant to be a serious instrument. They are usually used as props by dancers that will faux play along with the music as they dance. The zils on those riqs are horrible thin soft sheet metal that have bad sound. The routing and finish on the cut-outs for the zils is crude and often split and the wood is inferior, fragile and is often split by the pins that hold the zils. The bearing edge for the head is abysmal and will need a lot of dressing. For the amount of work that you'd need to do, you might as well start with a new 8 or 10 ply Kellar maple shell in 8" or 9" diameter and cut the slots for the zils yourself (on a shapers table or by drilling and using a table saw with a fence), drill the holes for the pins (on a good drill press). Cut a 45 degree bearing edge for the head and either do a natural fishskin head glued on or get some hardware and make it tunable (banjo hardware works well) and then you can use a commercially available synthetic head. Buy the jingles from Cooperman (they'll be expensive, but worth the price. There may be other places that will sell to you, but these guys are good to deal with, they're proud of their work and a whole lot cheaper than Kevork) This may seem like a lot of work but you'll get some good experience and you'll have the chance of getting a good playable riq. Re-doing yours will take almost as much work and you'll still have a "sow's ear". -
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Re: Tuning / Fixing up a Riq?
Thu, June 25, 2009 - 7:39 PMThis was a posting in may of 2007
of a repair I did on my own riqq which sounds great now sounded like shite before, only comment, make sure you remove the nail holding the zils on and reinstall them going in from the back of the riq (then if you use a long screw and can change zilswhenever you like as long as the riq is in good enough shape to do so)
Bearing edge update,
Ok.... well ...I'm always too impatient to take photos of a project and then pissed at my self for not doing that very thing! Heres why.....
Everything went awesome!! my Riq now has a distinct Dum,Nice Tek and a couple other tones that weren't available before..................... Much Fuller tone, It actually didn't have any before, Tone that is!!!
First I checked the bearing edge to see where it was un even ~--~---~ Kinda looked like that. (Placed it bearing edge down and looked for light or obvious gaps)
I used the Wood Epoxy as described by Brett (Thanks Brett That stuff worked awesome)
worked around the bearing edge building the whole edge up about a 1/4 inch to take out any unevenness, I then Taped some 100grit sand paper to a flat piece of formica, and rotated it to give me a nice flat edge (I did small figure eights I heard this was the surest way to get an even result by hand(Thanks Ken) Then Since I don't have a Bearing Edge Cutter Machine Thing, I slowly using 150-200 -280 Grit Sand paper took the inside bearing edge to the flat edge of the New Bearing edge at a 45 degree angle then did the same to the outside edge, So Ive got a Double 45 degree Bearing Edge, like a slight variation of a gong bass drum or timpani head.So even If the Head is kinda crimped poorly it still actually gives me a really good seat on the head. WOW!!!!!!! I Never thought it would come out this good.
Ray
to check out the whole story
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Re: Bearing edge Repair on a Riq ??? Oooooo Scary.... sctv. Fri, June 1, 2007 - 10:26 AM
I had great results and hope you will too,it doesn't take too long and you just might suprise yourself!!!
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Re: Tuning / Fixing up a Riq?
Thu, June 25, 2009 - 7:41 PMThis is of course if you want to invest the time to make a less than great riqq live to a greater potential and wood epoxy and sand paper is not that expensive its just that my bearing edge looked hella crazy!!!!!!!!! -
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Re: Tuning / Fixing up a Riq?
Thu, June 25, 2009 - 7:47 PMOh also,
not to fan a fire or throw gas or lob bombs or whatever But I think you can make any instrument Musical!!!
remember the old school cats could make a phonebook swing!!! (Brushes)
and the old adage goes" Its the Drummer not the drum" -
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Re: Tuning / Fixing up a Riq?
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 10:35 PMThanks for the info, that sounds like exactly the direction I'm going on this. Looks like my Dremel will be getting some attention this weekend! :)
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Re: Tuning / Fixing up a Riq?
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 10:33 AMIf you are going to follow Jeffrey's advice, here are a couple of points to consider: if you are going to be a serious riqq player, you need the width to be about 2 1/2 inches or so (someone please send in a width measurement of a Kevork) and also will want to place the zils closer to the playing edge than you will find in Coopermans, etc; second would be to get zils from Eckermann in Austria, much better than the Coopermans . -
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Re: Tuning / Fixing up a Riq?
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 11:19 AMMark, I've heard about Eckermann and the fine quality of their zils for riqqs. Do you have contact information for them. I revamp and make riqqs every once in a while and I'm always looking to improve the zil quality. This may be what I'm looking for.
BTW, I'm working on an idea for a riqq that is only 2" deep at most for the vast amount of drummers with small hands. (I have paws like a grizzly Bear) and I will be working out an internal tuning for a lighter weight riqq that will accept standard commercial synthetic heads (like SkyDeep). In between my several other projects I hope to get this done. I'll let folks know how it works out. Fine woodworking and cabinet making is one of my skills and I have a pretty good woodshop (mostly in storage now from my old picture frame business) but it's easy enough to set something up.
Now if only I could figure out how to set up a foundry and machine shop to start making derbekkes. ;) But I'd need to acquire the casting skills (I've only helped in bronze casting, so I'm not that experienced at it................. yet) -
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Re: Tuning / Fixing up a Riq?
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 11:49 AMOff topic, I'd like to find an aluminum casting foundry myself.
On topic, sort of, I like the narrow frame and heft of the Remo Glen Velez. It fits my hands so I can get a good doum, the zills aren't very noisy (unless I want them to be), and the doum is very deep. I like the Cooperman I bought from you, though, especially for the dry teks, for Samai.
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Re: Tuning / Fixing up a Riq?
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 11:54 AM
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Re: Tuning / Fixing up a Riq?
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 11:04 PM"If you are going to be a serious riqq player..."
I'm not. I'm just trying to add something marginally more dynamic to my girlfriend's bellydance group's drum group than a 5th doumbek. I don't consider myself a percussionist specialty by any means. I just thought this would be a little more "authentic" feeling and sounding than my blue plastic tambourine that I normally shake around like a be-fezzed Davey Jones. There's more I could say to justify this and that but I don't think that's relevant to the questions I asked.
I appreciate the info on the dimensions though and especially the pointer on keeping the zills as close to the rim/head as possible! -
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Re: Tuning / Fixing up a Riq?
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 11:56 PMDon't try to dremel the bearing edge (it goes too fast and you'll end up with the same problem of an
uneven bearing edge) take it nice and slow by hand. unless you have something more accurate.
also I try not to let the instrument hamper my ability as a musician you just have to get creative, and unless your trying to beat watterson at a worlds fastest drummer competition, a cheap riq can be just as amazing if played well! I can play the same paradiddle/ratamaque on a book as I can on a $1400. Snare drum. -
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Re: Tuning / Fixing up a Riq?
Fri, July 31, 2009 - 6:01 PMany news on your Riq operation??? -
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Re: Tuning / Fixing up a Riq?
Tue, August 4, 2009 - 7:49 AMIt went very well! I used the dremel to take off some of the rough spots in the bevel from their goopy paint/sealant application and then finished with hand sanding. I'll probably take it apart again soon and either do the flat surface sanding like you did to totally flatten it or put a little leather strip in as a gasket--I did this with a cheap dumbek a while back and had good results. Riq now has a doum that rings so long that I usually muffle the head slightly with a finger from my off-hand. I had an old tambourine that had fallen apart so I stole a few small aluminum (I think) zills off that and replaced a few of the brass zills on the riq. That helped the sound a LOT and since I put them on the inside row of paired zills they can't be seen from the outside so it still looks like a normal riq. Recorded with it this past weekend and it sounded about like I wanted.
Riq is much more fun to play than I was expecting. :) thanks for all the fix-it tips!
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