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Hi folks,
here you have an exceptional video which shows lots of rhythms. Some of them are new to me... watch it it's inspiring:
www.akilli.tv/video/27322...timleri.aspx
here you have an exceptional video which shows lots of rhythms. Some of them are new to me... watch it it's inspiring:
www.akilli.tv/video/27322...timleri.aspx
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Re: found a new video which shows lots of rhythms (well known and uncommon ones)
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 9:44 AMThank you for posting this, it's very interesting and I have bookmarked the video.
I wouldn't repeat these names of rhythms if you are playing them with others because this entire video seems to to be all about a very personal variation to rhythms with some names and titles for the rhythms that are specific to this drummer. Many of the rhythms that were played, I know well (in another variation possibly) but I know them by another name. i.e. The Chiftitelli seemed more like a Wahade and the Wahade seemed more like a Chiftitelli. The Dabkkah is an Iraqi rhythm that I know as Choybi. The Sufi is just a Big Masmoudi.
The drummer is good and I enjoyed the video. -
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Re: found a new video which shows lots of rhythms (well known and uncommon ones)
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 9:55 AMthanks for commenting the vid. Of course you are right, the wahade seems to me like an chifte and the other way around...
My intention to post this vid was just to share this nice collection of different rhythms with you....
Actually most of the parts of the video where taken by middle eastern percussion albums. I think the majority is from harem, yasar akpence, akatay and hossam ramzy albums. So each ryhthm is taken out of a professional recording (one can notice that the songs consist of darbuka, riqq, framedrum and zilltracks)
anyhow I like it a lot because it's not just all about Maksoum, saaidi, Ayoub and co... there are a lot of other grooving rhyhtms..
ok peops have fun
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Re: found a new video which shows lots of rhythms (well known and uncommon ones)
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 12:41 PMIsn't that just the whole big problem with naming these things in the first place? I mean, after all, isn't Masmoudi a slower version of baladi (two doums at the beginning, and one in the middle), for example? -
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Re: found a new video which shows lots of rhythms (well known and uncommon ones)
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 1:45 PMAnother term in Egypt for what we know as "Beledi" is "Masmoudi Saghir". The larger Masmoudi that is taught with 8 beats is known as "Masmoudi Kabir".
Beledi means "country" as in "rural folks".
There are certainly alternate terms for much of what we do and use such as: Tupan, Tabl Beledi, Daoulli , and Davul all representing the larger two headed drum played with beater and switch. or Tabla, darbukah,derbekke, darbakke, doumbeg, dumbek all used to represent our goblet drum. Morrocco (Carolina Vargas) has collected over 40 different terms in the Middle-East that is used to refer to finger cymbals.
What is at issue here is the confusion that is caused when people re-name a known rhythm by calling it by a name of another rhythm that is entirely different. In another thread I mentioned how the rhythm that we know as Chiftitelli is not played by the Greek bands. When they ask for Chiftitelli, theyt are asking for Maqsum. In the posted video there was a rhythm called "Sufi" which is what most of us know as a Masmoudi Kabir with three doums in the front end.
We are a very large nation here in the US and we try to standardize things a bit so that we can communicate with each other. I don't consider that a bad thing, we are not forcing it on musicians in the Middle-East, but it makes it easier when we talk to each other.
The great master Souhail Kaspar bristles whenever anyone uses the term "ka" for a left hand rim strike. He prefers to use the word "tek" for both right and left hand because that is how it was taught to him in the Syrian conservatories. Most of us will continue to use the term "ka" because it makes it easier to distinguish right from left hand. Most of the other Arabic musicians that are teaching here have adapted the use of the term "ka" when they talk to us because it's not worth fighting over. If you study in the Middle-East, you won't learn it that way.
I think it is interesting to witness videos like this because they do throw other things into the mix, but please keep in mind, many of the rhythms there are not traditional Arabic rhythms, many of them were influenced by Latin American music (the world has gotten smaller, you see).
I would never think to tell a person from the Middle-East that this must be the name for a given rhythm or the actual rhythm itself, because they already know the way that they were taught it and it is correct............. for where they learned it from.
I am saying that for expedients sake, when we are teaching these rhythms here, in the Americas, perhaps we can use some sort of standardized language that will make it easier to communicate. Then add the alternate terms to them as an aside so that students of the music can know them for when they may play with musicians from different parts of the world.
If you start teaching new students and bombard them with all of the terminology from the beginning, you're going to scare and confuse them. -
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Re: found a new video which shows lots of rhythms (well known and uncommon ones)
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 2:00 PMWell stated (as usual). It would be nice if we could take explanations of issues that occur frequently and post them as a standalone file that we could then refer to each time it comes up. Q. Is bolero the same as rhumba? A. Go see file BoleroVsRhumba.txt please. Next question?
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Re: found a new video which shows lots of rhythms (well known and uncommon ones)
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 2:48 PMMUAHAHAHA!
I like to scare students.
Just teasing.
(I will tell them so that they don't get discouraged and think that they are uncoordinated baffoons or stupid, that it takes a few people minutes to get a sound out of the "ka" stroke, and others it may take weeks. And further, it takes damn near everyone a year to do it correctly 90% of the time. And it only takes a year if you practice it like crazy every single day.) -
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Re: found a new video which shows lots of rhythms (well known and uncommon ones)
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 3:42 PMI remember helping a girl at the World Rhythm Festival last year discover her ka, and she lit up like angels had just sung in her ear. If only every epiphany were so easy. :)
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Re: found a new video which shows lots of rhythms (well known and uncommon ones)
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 5:29 PMThat sounds like a useful project. How do we start? You want to start a list? Use one of the online compilations?
I pulled a bunch out of Jas' (is that correct?) online list some time ago and scored them out in Overture. I'm not certain that anybody else views the rhythms the same way I do (the accents define the rhythm and the filler notes are inconsequential), so I wouldn't offer those up as a suitable start; I would, however, be willing to score a group project and offer up PDFs of the sheets--both standard western musical notation and DTK (sticking noted under the staff). -
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Re: found a new video which shows lots of rhythms (well known and uncommon ones)
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 5:33 PMLarry, are you saying you'd stick us with a Staph infection?
:-) -
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Re: found a new video which shows lots of rhythms (well known and uncommon ones)
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 5:35 PMOnly if it would CLEF in twain the knots of confusion over which rhythm is which! :-o -
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Re: found a new video which shows lots of rhythms (well known and uncommon ones)
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 5:41 PMWhich witch, the wicked witch? If rhythms are beats, would you beat a witch? Sorry, it's been a long week, and I'm now on vacation. My mind is now a rhythmic pun-cussion. Which, since I'm a drummer, is now no treble-a-tall. -
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Re: found a new video which shows lots of rhythms (well known and uncommon ones)
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 5:59 PMJust posted a PDF with a sample in the photos section. It came out really tiny, so you may want to put on the reading glasses to see it!
Anyway, I'm thinking rhythm sheets using a page size that fits in small notebooks that can be slipped into a pocket would be a good thing. Makes it easy to carry the reference wherever ya go.
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Re: found a new video which shows lots of rhythms (well known and uncommon ones)
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 6:44 PMThe notebook's better than the binder I had assembled. I can do one better still, though - I recently got a used iPod touch and I've been transferring some of my rhythm sheets to it. It's much more work than it really should be (Apple's quirks and my having dialup on my PC required me to jump through a LOT of hoops - formatting, reformatting, uploading, downloading, REuploading, REDOWNLOADING again!!!)...*sigh*
Well, it's not perfect (thanks to the reformatting), but it's not bad, either and I now pages of rhythms literally in my pocket and I still have more on my PC to transfer. I need time to fine tune it (reorganize, clear out duplicates, etc.), but I'm always looking to add more - so I love it when you guys share like this! :-)
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Re: found a new video which shows lots of rhythms (well known and uncommon ones)
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 6:56 PMGood idea. This can be very useful. -
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Re: found a new video which shows lots of rhythms (well known and uncommon ones)
Sat, June 27, 2009 - 7:05 AMMan, I leave for less that 24 hours and this took off!
Thanks for that info Jeffrey. My wife had recently gotten this DVD set called "The Baladi" by Rannya Renee and that is were I found out that masmoodi kabir was in the family of baladi. btw, that DVD is really good and best of all has live musicians!
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Re: found a new video which shows lots of rhythms (well known and uncommon ones)
Sun, June 28, 2009 - 7:27 AMGreat idea.
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Re: found a new video which shows lots of rhythms (well known and uncommon ones)
Sat, June 27, 2009 - 8:23 PMJeffrey,
I heard this before from some else saying that some Middle eastern beats are influenced by Latin American beats or rhythms ? can you give me an example please of which beats. -
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Re: found a new video which shows lots of rhythms (well known and uncommon ones)
Sun, June 28, 2009 - 8:20 AMFaisal wrote:
"Jeffrey,
I heard this before from some else saying that some Middle eastern beats are influenced by Latin American beats or rhythms ? can you give me an example please of which beats. "
Hi Faisal,
When I wrote:
"but please keep in mind, many of the rhythms there are not traditional Arabic rhythms, many of them were influenced by Latin American music (the world has gotten smaller, you see). "
I was referring to the video when I said "there".
Rhythms such as "Bolero", Rhumba", "Salsa" and "Samba" are clearly Latin American influenced rhythms. The practice of using bongos (and even inventing a more "Egyptian looking" bongos in Egypt that we see commonly now is also from the influence of Latin music)
That's what I was referring to when I said the world is getting much smaller. -
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Re: found a new video which shows lots of rhythms (well known and uncommon ones)
Sun, June 28, 2009 - 11:24 PMThank you Jeffrey.
The Egyptian cinema was the one who introduced these rhythms to modern Arabic/Egyptian songs and dances. But before that the Romba and Bolero beats were popular in the old tradition. Of course they have different names. They are more popular in the Arabic peninsula
( Saudi Arabia and Yaman). What we know now a days as names like Bolero and Romba is from the Egyptian cinema and modern music making. It was Mohammad Abdulwahab, Fareed Al atrash and few other musicians who introduced these names. They also adopted the Latin percussion instruments in their ensembles. So when they play these Latin American rhythms, they played them using Latin American percussion. If you watch any Egyptian movie from the 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's and 60's, you will see a lot of these songs with Latin American beats and percussion.
The other thing is the lack of academic study to preserve the original names of these beats. We had to use these names because no body tried to preserve the names of these beats and so we have Bolero and Romba as popular names for these beats. Or, when the Arabic music convention in the 1930's in Cairo adopted the western notation, they also adopted some Latin American names such as Romba and Bolero.
What remains to me is the feeling of Romba and Bolero are original to the area with different names. They have so many traditional songs and dances for these beats even before the time of radio and TV. and world exchange. -
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Re: found a new video which shows lots of rhythms (well known and uncommon ones)
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 2:13 AMas usual, thx for the awesome info faisal buddy... : )
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Re: found a new video which shows lots of rhythms (well known and uncommon ones)
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 1:16 PMHi Faisal and all,
Are you saying that there isn't really an influence on the rhythms from Latin American rhythms, or are you saying that the influence is vague? Or are you saying that there was an influence but only on a very few rhythms? (which is what I've always thought) I'm not being argumentative, I just didn't completely understand.
Certainly with much of what Hossam Ramzy does it is a fusion and he will proudly admit to that (as a lot of these Samba and Salsa rhythms are created in tribute to his wife), so those particular rhythms that were on the video were very obviously influenced by Latin music, but those are the exception.
When I studied musicology years ago, there was a reference to the rhythm "Bolero" as having crept into the Arabic music through contact with Spain and that "Rhumba" was directly from the Caribbean after the enormous influence of Latin music worldwide (and most especially in Egypt). I assume that the derivation is taught differently in Arabic countries.
In Latin music, the Bolero is played as a very slow Rhumba (sort of like the difference between a Felahi and a Maqsum). Isn't it taught that way in Syria?
Again, I'm asking because I want to know. -
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Re: found a new video which shows lots of rhythms (well known and uncommon ones)
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 4:55 PMHey Jeffrey.
I think I did not talk about the Salsa, Samba and few other Latin American beats. They are differently Latin American beats and not just influence. I mean that Egyptian composers took these beats the way they are plus the Latin percussion instruments and used them to produce Latin American sounding music with Arabic lyrics for songs. But again these beats came to the Arab world through Egyptian cinema and they were widely used in the movies and only in the last 80 to 90 years of movie making in Egypt.
The Romba and Bolero are native to the Middle eastern music tradition with different names.
Again the example of old Yamani and Saudi rhythms.
You can view those two beats as part of the Malfouf family.
One thing I am not sure of is the connection between Arabic and Spanish beats (as in beats from Spain).
What was the music seen in Spain before the Arabs arrived and what kind of beats they used. I hope you can help me with that question.
I hope I was clear and did not miss any points.
All the best.
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Re: found a new video which shows lots of rhythms (well known and uncommon ones)
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 8:50 AMI attended Reda Darwish workshops at "Ya Hlla, Ya'll" about 5 years ago. It is my understanding that he was greatly influenced by Latin rhythms and percussion instruments, especially the bongos. In fact, if I remember correctly, the bongos were his first percussive instrument. Someone else may have better memory of that than I...Old-timer's disease looms on the horizon ;) -
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Re: found a new video which shows lots of rhythms (well known and uncommon ones)
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 7:39 PMCorrection: trap set 1st, bongos next -
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Re: found a new video which shows lots of rhythms (well known and uncommon ones)
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 2:43 AMHi - getting back to the original posting - I am sure this video is a collection of all the sound samples from the Wizoo Darbuka Virtual Percussionist Sound Sample Software - This 2GB Middle Eastern collection features two percussionists — Suat Borazan and Mohamed Zaki — playing no less than eight instruments in various rhythmic styles from Egypt, Algeria, Lebanon, Turkey, Sudan, Tunisia, Morocco, and Libya.
Styles:
Ayoub/Zar, Baio, Chiftetelli, Churchuna, Dabkkah, Darig, Daza, Dishka, Fallahi, Fazani, Karachi, Jirk, Laz Havasi, Libi, Maghrebi, Maksum, Malfuf, Mambo Sudani, Masmoudy Kebir, Nubian Reggae, Nubian Samba, Rai, Roman Havasi, Rumba Khaligi, Rumba Masri, Saidi, Samai Thakil, Sufi, Sudasi, Tom Tom, Wahda, Wahrani, Wals, Zafa, Zorofat.
Regions: Algeria, Arabian Gulf, Egypt, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Nubia, Sudan, Tunisia, Turkey.
Instruments:
Darbuka, Douhola, Bendir, Riqq, Sagat, Tura, Bongos, Shaker.
Suat Borazan is one of the best Darbuka players from Turkey and you can hear more of him here -www.myspace.com/suatborazan
Mohammed Zaki is an Egyptian multi percussionist based in Germany and again is world class, check -www.mohamed-zaki.com
The Wizoo Darbuka software package is a superb tool and a fantastic resource for understanding the role of the different drums when playing different rhythms as you can isolate different drums/percussion to hear what they are playing in the mix. -
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Re: found a new video which shows lots of rhythms (well known and uncommon ones)
Sun, July 5, 2009 - 5:17 AMthanks chas... well done. I didn't know that these rhtyhms were taken out of software. Will check it out... keep rockin
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Re: found a new video which shows lots of rhythms (well known and uncommon ones)
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 8:16 AMbumpity